.jpg)
Arizona Civics Podcast
Welcome to the Arizona Civics Podcast. This podcast aims to share our journey of sustaining Arizona’s interests in reforms to civic education by working with civic educators in our state. This work is being done by the Center for American Civics at Arizona State University. I am your host, Liz Evans, Civic Education and Outreach Program Director at ASU, and I will interview Arizona teachers, content experts, and leaders in civic education. We hope you enjoy our journey to make Arizona a national civics model!
Arizona Civics Podcast
Teachers on the Frontlines Are Transforming Civic Education Every Day
Teachers on the frontlines of civic education share strategies for empowering students to become confident, engaged citizens through structured resources and collaborative learning approaches.
• Teachers face three main challenges in civic education: time constraints, lack of resources, and hesitation around controversial topics
• Quality structured lessons and primary source documents reduce barriers for educators at all levels
• Elementary students benefit from perspective-taking exercises that create emotional connections to civic concepts
• Middle school teachers can use historical examples as gateways to discussing complex contemporary issues
• High school civic education should focus on fundamental knowledge before tackling controversial topics
• Empowered civics teachers embrace failure, promote respectful discussion, and demonstrate lifelong learning
• Many effective civics educators describe themselves as "accidental civics teachers" who discovered their passion for the subject
• Creating "civically curious" students means teaching skills over content and modeling how to find answers
• Civic education belongs everywhere - not just in social studies classrooms
• Teachers must recognize they're often providing civic knowledge students aren't getting elsewhere
Check out the Civic Literacy Curriculum for free, adaptable lessons created by practicing teachers for all grade levels.
The Arizona Constitution Project
Check Out Our Free Lessons on Arizona History and Government!
Follow us on:
Twitter
Linked In
Instagram
Facebook
YouTube
Website
Interested in a Master's Degree? Check out the School of Civic and Economic Leadership's Master's in Classical Liberal Education and Leadership
I am thrilled because it feels like there's nobody better to hype up teachers than other teachers, teachers that are practicing teachers that are in the classroom right now. So today we're talking about how empowering teachers in civics leads to stronger, more confident educators and better prepared students. And I am very lucky to have three amazing teachers with me who are also part of our Civic Literacy Curriculum teacher cohort, so you'll know the names because you'll probably have looked at their lessons and used them in your classroom, so I'm going to have them introduce themselves. Rebecca, I will actually start with you if you want to tell us a little bit about yourself.
Rebecca Helland:Well, thank you for inviting me to join the program. I appreciate the opportunity to have a chat with you today. My name is Rebecca Helland. I professionally mess with the minds of fifth graders and have for a very long time Also have been involved in some social studies initiatives across the state in Iowa and working with standards and things like that, as well as professional learning for teachers about how social studies can be effectively done and well done in the elementary classroom. So have a passion for seeing kids' curiosity grow, and social studies and civics are a great way to foster that.
Liz Evans:Thank you, and next up I'm going to introduce Jamie. She is in our middle school portion of the cohort.
Jamie Warner:Yes, thank you for inviting me. My name is Jamie Warner. I teach in suburban New Jersey and I'm currently teaching civics and also ancient world and medieval world, so it's quite an interesting mix for me. Teaching middle school students about civics in this moment, I think, is one of the most important things I'll ever do, and I really take a lot of pride in creating the most engaging lessons I can to make it as relevant as possible to their lives, recognizing that you know they're moving on to the high school shortly as an eighth grade teacher and they really need to be well equipped with, you know, all the research skills and media literacy skills and things of that nature to navigate the world that we're currently living in and I think it's so intertwined with civics in the modern day. So I'm really excited to be here and to talk to my colleagues about best practices and, you know, to continue to learn from each other.
Liz Evans:Wonderful. And, lastly, we have a member of our high school cohort, brandon, will you introduce yourself?
Brandon Westlake:Yeah, thanks for inviting me, Liz. I am a 15-year veteran of high school. I'm currently in St Louis, missouri, where I am at St Joseph's Academy. I serve as the department chair there now and kind of dabble in all sorts of extracurricular things whenever I'm needed. But I think that being a high school teacher, like Jamie said, that this is a key moment for everybody, because I have students who come to me who are, you know, just right on the verge. Sometimes they are able to vote, but they are right there where they are getting interested, they see where these issues connect to their own lives, and so they come with a lot of questions and a lot of curiosity. That's exciting, but it can also be a little frightening sometimes, and so I really love the ability to kind of just intellectually grapple with that, with this initiative, and just to be able to kind of work through how would I approach all of these different topics. So I'm glad to be able to talk this out today.
Liz Evans:Awesome. Well, again, thank you all so much. So my first question I mean teachers are really at the heart of civic education. I was a teacher for 17 years. I believe that teachers should be in places where decisions are made. There's often, though, challenges like time constraints, lack of resources or hesitations around controversial topics. We have another podcast episode that I did with Alan Carey, which is actually already out on civil discourse, and he talks about that, but how has being a part of this teacher cohort kind of help you overcome some of these challenges, and how do you think that teachers can utilize some of this stuff to help overcome the challenges in their classroom? And, Rebecca, I will start with you on that.
Rebecca Helland:Yeah, so a couple of things. For us as elementary teachers, I think it's always a battle of resources and time to access those resources. So having primary sources, having quality questions, having lessons that are laid out, organized, easily accessible, those are all things that reduce barriers for us as teachers when it comes to time and putting together quality lessons and conversation points for our students. Another definite barrier that I think a lot of us as elementary teachers face is not really sure how to navigate those controversial topics and difficult conversations, and so sometimes it becomes easy to sort of say well, I just didn't have time to get those things in. We were working on lots of great reading things today and we just didn't have time for social studies. We didn't have time to talk about some of those hard things.
Rebecca Helland:I think those are great opportunities for conversations with colleagues and grow professionally. We need to be equipping our kids with the right language to use the way to talk with each other in a civil way and talk about real things that matter to kids, because those are real things that matter to kids. They're curious about those things. They've heard snippets, they have misconceptions and it's an opportunity to be able to understand where kids are coming from and have a chance to get some of those things out and have a chance to talk about some of the things that we may or may not be proud of when it comes to a historical context, but are hugely formational in where we are today as a country. And that's something that kids are. Maybe they haven't thought of it in terms, in those terms, but they're definitely curious about when we get there.
Liz Evans:I love that especially. You know. I think that educating for American Democracy framework calls it reflective patriotism, right, like we have to study all of it because it's part of who we are as a nation. Absolutely, I love that, brandon. What does that look like in a high school setting?
Brandon Westlake:You know, it's in some ways oddly similar to Rebecca's experience, because I think time, if I'm thing that teachers would necessarily have to worry about as they're trying to find what works best for their students and how they can adapt some of these in high school, these very abstract ideas, to their lives, and being able to find a way that it will kind of grab students' attention.
Brandon Westlake:And I think that, with all of the controversy and the unsettleness about civics, the thing that I think is so important here that I learned and I kind of talk about this with my colleagues is the idea of confidence through our colleagues, and I think that we can see this here in that these are ideas that are generated by teachers. They're things that teachers are doing in their classrooms now, they're things that work with students now, and that isn't to say that we wouldn't encourage teachers, you know to to adapt and to make some changes where it would fit best with their own you know their own classrooms. But I think that here are examples of of starting points and whether that be the primary sources or just even lessons, or maybe even you know, discussion starters, where it's one less thing that they have to worry about and then they can kind of take and manipulate on their own.
Liz Evans:And there is. I mean, every lesson that is up on the website was made by a practicing teacher. You're all practicing teachers and a lot of these too. And, jamie, I'm coming to you next because I'm specifically thinking and I want to remember which lesson it is. But I remember looking at one of the lessons you put for middle school, because I taught middle school for so long and I was like I want to go back in the classroom and do this lesson because it looks so fun, and I will find it and I will put it in our show notes because I remember writing it down and being like this looks so fun, like this is something I want my daughter to do because she is currently an eighth grader. So, jamie, what does it look like for middle schoolers?
Jamie Warner:um, when I'm thinking about all the things that we've mentioned so far, right, you kind of let off with that three-headed monster of teaching civics right now.
Jamie Warner:Right, the lack of time, the lack of resources and kind of this discomfort with talking about certain topics.
Jamie Warner:You know, especially for me in a middle school classroom, the number one thing that I consider most important is creating that respectful environment where everybody knows that their voice can be heard and, you know, we can kind of work through, as you mentioned, those misconceptions that students may bring in and just kind of share our ideas openly and have this respect and understanding that we can learn from each other through furthering what it is we're studying or talking about on any given day.
Jamie Warner:And I find that being a part of this cohort and utilizing the lessons that are provided through it have just enhanced my teaching and made all of those things that three-headed monster so much easier. Right, there's less discomfort, there's certainly much more time and just an amazing compendium of resources that we're able to utilize and implement. And I have just such confidence in knowing that my colleagues have worked hard to thoughtfully craft them and that they're vetted and we've had discussions about them and they've been reviewed and it just gives me such a positive feeling being able to pull from that and implement it in my own classroom, but also makes me think about brand new teachers and novice teachers who are entering the social studies profession right now, who, I imagine, must feel so much more of a sense of overwhelm just because they're not the seasoned veteran that some of us might be. And you know, this, I think, is going to be one of the most helpful resources that they could utilize if they're looking to teach civics and to plan thoughtfully to engage students in this current time.
Liz Evans:I love that you bring up new teachers right, because I think that one of my favorite things about this curriculum as a whole is it is if you are a brand new teacher and literally K through adult right and you're like I need a lesson on who the current president is. I need a lesson on why we say the Pledge of Allegiance. There are lessons K through adult that a teacher does in their classroom and you have all looked at other people's lessons. This is not just something people make up and throw on the internet and everything is free and it's a Google Doc. So if you want to change anything because it works better for your classroom, you have the ability to do that. And I absolutely I'm so glad you brought up the new teachers because we do not want to leave those new teachers behind.
Liz Evans:And I love your analogy of the three-headed monster of teaching civics. That is like, because now I'm thinking about, like all these cohort members, as monster slayers, like going through and doing that. So the civic literacy curriculum is designed to provide structured, engaging lessons in civics. I'd like you guys to share how using the civic literacy curriculum changed or enhanced the way you've taught, or if there's any specific lessons or resources that you feel have impacted your students and Brandon, I will start with you.
Brandon Westlake:So it's funny that this question is one that we're kind of dabbling with here, because I had somebody I just came off of spring break and I had somebody ask me well, what is it like I teach AP government and politics? And someone was asking me well, what is it like I teach AP government and politics? And someone was asking me well, what is it like teaching those kinds of subjects in the political environment that we have? And it made me really think about the work that we did here, because there is a way to teach these really tough subjects, sometimes at a high school level, with it not being a way that is controversial or that lends itself to being a flashpoint.
Brandon Westlake:And so I would just say, as the high school curriculum as a whole, we really kind of focused in on, let's get down to kind of the fundamentals of civics again. Let's kind of go back to, you know, the basics of three branches and the organization of the government and just those ideas of what is it that kids for sure, what is it that we want them to walk away with before we get into any of those deeper concepts? And so I think about just the idea of the lessons that we made on the founders and the constitutional convention and how we focus more on let's make sure that they understand the debate about, say, the three-fifths compromise and that they can walk away saying, well, here's what was actually discussed through primary sources, here's kind of the issues that were found at the day, and I think I guess at the end we came up with with lessons that got students in or thinking in this mindset of we need to kind of lay the groundwork first by getting by getting the story told, by getting them to understand the, the basic, fundamental, would say, vocabulary. I would say you know kind of the key terminology and it's not often that I think teachers get to kind of play around with that in a, in a way that's fun.
Brandon Westlake:You know, we we tend to kind of go off on on some of these like well, well, let's, let's make sure that we're incorporating these writing standards and things like you know of of ACD alignment and things like that, and so this was this is a really great way to be able to say no, let's, let's back up to kind of like bread and butter, civics things, and so the other thing that I would say is that by doing that, what I have tried to kind of inculcate in students is this civically curious mindset of, okay, now that you have the basics that they debated and this is the constitution they created, now where can we run with that? And I think that having understand those fundamental ideas again Kind of plays into your hand as a teacher, because you're teaching them what they need to know is you're teaching them what they need to know. You're teaching them that the aspects of no matter what perspective you're taking, you're going to have to know these certain you know parts of the constitution and these certain aspects of civics literacy.
Liz Evans:I love that Civically curious right when you know. You know what the first amendment says and makes you curious when you see things that you're like hmm, is that constitutional? Um, what about you, jamie?
Jamie Warner:um, so I was listening to what brandon was saying and that struck me, um, talking about the use of historical examples in the classroom to kind of build the framework and enhance their understanding of civics. And I find that that has been so valuable to my teaching this year as well, and just we've had an opportunity to revise and reframe our curriculum where I am, which has really made this project all the more valuable to me. And as we're talking about that, I feel like using those historical examples is an easy gateway to start moving towards the more complicated and complex conversations about what's happening in the modern day. And I know like, as in my experience, we were talking about the Supreme Court quite a bit this year and usually we talk about the nuts and bolts of Supreme Court limits and you know who is placed on the Supreme Court in the process of getting to that point where they become the Supreme Court justice, and just kind of the schematic of that, the framework of how that goes. And then we started to take a look at Supreme Court cases from the past that were related to things like naturalization, because that was coming up a little bit in the news, and then it was exciting to see students kind of make a connection between, well, we're learning about this, but I also have questions about what's happening, current events related to this, and then seeing that develop and being able to borrow from these lessons.
Jamie Warner:One in particular stood out to me I know that was part of the question you asked before was on the Supreme Court, where it was a simulation where students get to actually be the Supreme Court justice and see the process of making these decisions.
Jamie Warner:And an exemplar lesson like that, I think, is something kids don't soon forget and we were able to tie it into the TikTok ban right and students were so engaged with that because that affects them and their daily life for a lot of students who utilize social media and it was just such a rich conversation that came from this idea of, you know, taking a look at the life of a Supreme Court justice and how they go through that decision-making process.
Jamie Warner:So being able to start way back with a Supreme Court decision, that's part of our curriculum and part of understanding how the Supreme Court works. To tie it into the modern day and kind of see that full spectrum perspective is really powerful and, to me, amazing for middle school students to be able to do and we had such rich conversations from that. So I don't know if I'm navigating away from your original question, but that's what popped into my mind. I think that's the power of having this compendium of lessons, because you can get such inspiration and then be able to make those connections between the basics of civics, literacy that we want students to know, but then kind of build this very enriching plan from that where it comes full circle and there's this relevant connection between the past and the present.
Liz Evans:The judicial branch. By the way, for our listeners is section 2.4 of the civic literacy curriculum, and I do love the TikTok ban because I know that I mean maybe not your fifth graders, rebecca, or maybe I do not know how far down social media goes, but that it is the like these. You say like, oh, we're studying things and they happen so far in the past, or it doesn't. When am I going to need civics anyway? Dun, dun, dun, dun every day. So, rebecca, what about you in elementary?
Rebecca Helland:Yeah. So you couldn't have lobbed up a better ball for me to hit with this one. So I actually have, like the, the connection between the high school for Brandon's high school example and then Jamie's middle school example. So for elementary students it's all about creating experiences and helping them to gain perspective through those experiences.
Rebecca Helland:So one of the things that comes to mind is when understanding the constitution and the branches of government and how that all fits together and why it's in place, there's no better way to help kids connect with that other than to toss out a really big question and ask them to take on a perspective of someone who was there and then vote to make decisions that go with it.
Rebecca Helland:So the more you can equip those kids with that perspective and know what a person who was at that event would have said and then help kids to basically present and argue from that stance, they then have an emotional connection to it because they've been able to argue something and see it pass and go through and understand kind of the ramifications thereof. So those are pieces that kids find memorable, things that they'll come back to later on, and and always wrapped around that issue of perspective, because the more often we can help kids think outside of their own self and their own experiences, the more successful that we are as as teachers, because understanding, appreciating and respecting perspective is something they will take with the rest of their lives. I love that understanding, appreciating and respecting perspective is something they will take with the rest of their lives.
Liz Evans:I love that and that actually teased me up for our next question. So we're talking about empowered civics teachers. So what does an empowered civics teacher look like and how has collaborating with other educators? So, yes, in this teacher cohort, but if you have another example too, please share that. How have those things influenced your confidence, your teaching strategies and your approach to civic education? Because it was brought up. What about our novice teachers? I think sometimes, when you're a brand new teacher to something, you come in and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm in a department with Rebecca, Brandon and Jamie and they're all so good and they're so confident, but we all know that it takes steps to get there. So, Jamie, I will start with you.
Jamie Warner:What does an empowered civics teacher look like and how can collaborating with other educators kind of influence that as far as empowered civics teachers, I would say you have to be somebody that's willing to navigate difficult conversations and you know, having that emphasis on respect in your classroom I think is a really critical piece of that. I'd also say that an empowered civics teacher feels really competent in promoting critical thinking in their classroom and we've had such rich discussion already about lesson ideas and things that we've set forth as really important in our classrooms to help engage students in civic-mindedness and civic curiosity and I would say also being able to make real-world connections for our students to maintain a relevancy and an importance, I think is also an important part of that. But also being able to be that empowered teacher and empower student voice in the classroom as well, I think being able to foster discussion and being able to just have a comfortability in engaging students in things that matter and are important is a really essential piece, and I would say that you know this cohort. If I'm being perfectly honest, civics was not my first choice to teach, but it has become my most favorite thing to teach in a lot of ways just because I see so much growth from my students but also in myself. Right Like this has empowered me tremendously in learning from others and being able to collaborate with my peers, whether in person in my own town and as part of our you know, our own civics cohort, and certainly being able to engage in these thoughtful discussions with civics teachers across the United States.
Jamie Warner:As we mentioned perspective and its importance, I get so much perspective from hearing the elementary perspective on teaching civics and the high school perspective where my students are heading, that that, to me, is really invaluable. And I think that this project is a great way to empower teachers. And I always think of the novice teacher because I know when I started I was terrified of what I was teaching and I felt like I was never going to get where I wanted to be on the level of teachers that had 15 and 20 years experience ahead of me. You know, 15 and 20 years experience ahead of me and I feel like this could be such a powerful resource for all teachers at all levels who are embracing civics, but especially for those novice teachers who might feel like they don't really know where to start and with teacher preparation programs, you know, across the country being so vastly different, I think that this is, you know, a really critical project to empower those teachers to feel comfortable in the classroom.
Liz Evans:I love, too, that you brought up the accidental civics teacher, because I'm also an accidental civics teacher. My degree is in early childhood education and in my I was like I want to teach, I want to teach the littles, the second and third graders, and I entered the job market in 2003. And so here in Arizona it wasn't, there wasn't a whole lot of jobs open, and I had enough credits to teach eighth grade social studies and I loved it. And then, you know, 11 years after that, I became an AP Gov teacher, and that was. It took me 11 years and I loved eighth graders.
Liz Evans:But becoming an AP Gov teacher and this accidental civics person, I love that you bring that up, because I think that there are teachers that get placed in this and they're not really sure, but they end up loving it. And they're not really sure, but they end up loving it because there was no like civic education degree at my college or in our state, and so it is this accidental civics thing. So I'm so I'm so glad that you brought that up, rebecca. What about you?
Rebecca Helland:I think that an empowered civics teacher is one who embraces failure, isn't afraid to fail, is willing to dabble and try, and then is willing to have honest conversation about what worked and what didn't work, because I can learn a lot vicariously through others and their experiences too. So when we have the opportunity and the time to collaborate on things, to be able to say, okay, why didn't that go the way that you were hoping it would, then allows me to avoid a couple of pitfalls along the way too, and hopefully I can reciprocate at some point.
Liz Evans:I think that's important. Failure is feedback, and especially in a classroom, like they get to practice doing these things, and I think sometimes the best thing we can do is fail and say like we're sure not perfect and it's never going to be perfect and that's okay, but it's about how you respond and how you move forward with that. That's really, really important, brandon, what about in high school, brandon?
Brandon Westlake:what about in high school? I think that it's about embracing that lifelong learner attitude that so many teachers have, that we want our students to think outside of the box, so to speak, and to be able to do it for the intrinsic motivation. And I think, embracing that as teachers and embracing that and collaborating with others, I think there's a lot of potential there of, yeah, you can try a lesson and you know we've all been there as veteran teachers that yeah, that didn't work out and I'm never doing that again. But you know, it's one of those things where you know now that it's not going to work and you know where you need to tweak it, for you know the next day or the next year or you know, however, however, your, your student group changes. But I think that there's the idea of kind of vulnerability in that and saying, hey, listen, like sometimes, as teachers, we just need to be like I tried this out and here's what worked. Maybe you should try it with students. Oh, but you may not want to do it this way because it fell flat.
Brandon Westlake:So, yeah, I think that there's there's. There's that idea of um, I don't know collegiality, but but also just that that whole idea of um, you know, not to kind of throw buzzwords out, but like kind of just like that learning community of yeah, we're, we're just we're here doing what we love, and maybe that that, maybe there's something to that too, about with all of the the craziness of of institutionalized learning, you know, and and again going back to what I had mentioned earlier about, you know, kind of checking off standards and things, there's something to this that I think is empowering about doing something that you're really passionate about and doing it in a creative way.
Liz Evans:Yes, I think one of my favorite things, especially when I taught, I got to my like third year of teaching AP Gov and kids always came in and would ask, regardless of the administration, right, Can they do this, Can they do this? And, my favorite thing, I always felt like I had to know the answer and it burned me out and I finally one day turned around and I said I don't know, but I'm sure the constitution does Everybody. Let's open to article two of the constitution and see what it says. And it was, I think, one of the better moments of teaching I had, where I am not the sage on the stage, I am not the end, all be all. I don't know everything, but I can show you how to find out. And that was like a huge light bulb for me too.
Liz Evans:And Brandon, yes, learning communities is a buzzword, but it's also we're not knowing communities right. We're all learning together and I think that one of my favorite things about civics teachers is they often, yes, we need kids to know this basic knowledge, but we're often showing them how to be civically engaged or how to ask questions and just be curious about it. And again going back to that civically curious. I absolutely love that education for over two decades and I still like, as somebody who interacted with 28 members of this cohort, learned something new every time. I opened a new lesson every single time and it was so. I think there were days that my face hurt from smiling and just being like, oh my gosh, this is so cool, I need to send it to this person. And we created this right Like a teacher could come in and say I need a lesson on this and try something new with their kids and be okay. If first hour it went really great, Second hour totally fell flat because of whatever. Oh my gosh, I'm just seeing now.
Brandon Westlake:I'm smiling and I'm Liz, can I, can I jump in there? So I I want to say I think bringing up AP government is important because that's that's what I teach primarily now and I think you know we and in the high school cohort we made these adaptable to everybody and there are many of them that can easily fit in with with this, the sequence for AP government, you know, and again thinking about who your students are and and levels and what's acceptable, and all of that obviously perfectly fine. But I think if there's someone who is a new teacher for this AP curriculum and they are thinking where do I start, like this is a great place to start and think about okay, let's lay the foundation again and work from there.
Liz Evans:Absolutely, and there are lessons actually on our site that are like aligned with AP as it is right now, in 2025, because things might change. But I think there were a lot of times too that, like educators would take something from AP and use it in eighth grade right, because you can adapt things for your kids and and I love to like, we don't need to be afraid to try things with fifth graders, with eighth graders, because kids are more resilient and more curious oftentimes than I think we give them credit for and they want to try these harder things, especially if they are with an educator and within a classroom where that kind of curiosity and the ability to try things is really, oh my gosh, gorgeous, thank you, really celebrated and allowed and to try just be like, hey, we're going to try this and let's see, you know, let's see what happens.
Rebecca Helland:I just think that for elementary teachers in particular, a lot of us we're relearning the content when we're coming to deliver any of the kinds of social studies, areas of social studies. So having that background information and having that explanation for each of the lessons, that's right there so I don't have to go search it out. I don't have to Google a bunch of terms that I feel like I should know but I don't know and so I'm not confident to toss it out in front of kids. Yet Having that quick background in there really helps to be able to say, okay, this is, this is what it's talking about, this is where it comes from.
Liz Evans:I know how to navigate it because I'm equipped with the content knowledge background to be able to put that in front of kids, and our faculty did that. All of those backgrounds are created by faculty, that this is what they study, and I I mean, I feel like I know a lot of things, but there were times I was reading where I was like, wow, that's actually really interesting, I didn't know that. And I mean, for high school kids and I think for some middle school kids too, you can give them that background information and have them read it. But it was really put there because teachers can't know everything right and there are times where you're in elementary school and you're teaching all of the subjects, or you're in high school or middle school and this isn't your only prep, you're doing other preps. That background information is there as a quick two-minute read to just kind of put you. Thank you for bringing that up.
Liz Evans:The last question I have is basically what advice do you have for civics teachers and whether that is the standalone subject they're teaching? Uh, I I believe civics belongs everywhere. So if you're teaching english or math or science or pe it, it doesn't matter, we're all teachers of civics. Um, what advice would you give to teachers right now? We it feels like every day something is changing. There are things that are happening that we're we're wondering how the courts are going to deal I have started to hate the word unprecedented, since it's been so overutilized since 2020, but that's what it feels like. It feels like things are constantly changing and teachers are really on the front lines of that. So I'm just going to ask that what advice would you give to somebody who is teaching civics right now, in 2025?
Brandon Westlake:And, brandon, I will start with you and so I kind of look at this two different ways, and the first is just kind of the straightforward message here is that civics teachers have to understand that they are teaching these key issues of American life and of being an American that in many places, unfortunately, within their day-to-day life, they're not getting anywhere else or they're not getting it in a way that they should be, in a neutral, non-biased way that's not filtered through somebody else's perspective on social media or somewhere else. And so I think that means that teachers who are teaching civics have to understand that they have to know that that's what they're signing up for as social studies teachers. You know it would be like it would be like saying you want to teach science but you don't want to do experiments. I mean, that's fundamental to who we are.
Brandon Westlake:We talk about these very hard, tough subjects in order to get kids to think about their own perspectives and their own views on things, and so I think that it's it's important just to to have that really frank conversation with yourself of um, yeah, you, you do do this and you have a an obligation to do it, because there are other other places where they aren't getting it. I think there's that and I think thinking of it then from an instructional standpoint is that we have to have these conversations but we also have to let students drive those conversations. Like we've kind of been talking about instances of um, there's kind of these serendipitous instances of where these questions come up and and lessons that build from them. But I think that if we challenge ourselves as teachers to ask more questions than we actually talk, to listen more than we actually talk, and put the onus on the students who are trying to navigate this crazy world and empower them, then I think we've ultimately empowered ourselves.
Liz Evans:I love that. I actually just read a policy brief from the Sandra Day O'Connor Institute here in Arizona that said, like a lot of our students, their parents did not get a civic education because the emphasis was placed on STEM, and there are a lot of kids who are teaching their parents civics. So not only are we opening the door for our students by again and I love that asking more questions and giving answers, listening more than talking we're empowering them to go home and to have those conversations with their parents. I'm a Gen Xer. I did not get a civic education because the emphasis was put on history, which is very important math, science and English. It wasn't necessarily put on civics, and so that's like a whole nother door opening. Jamie, what does that look like for you?
Jamie Warner:The first thing that came to mind when you said what advice would you give is just breathe that's, I think, number one, most important and just know that it's okay to not know all of the answers. And I find that sometimes having that collective struggle and researching together is a powerful way to model a lot of the skills that we want our students to know. But it also gives students that idea too that it's okay to not know in the moment as long as you're taking action to find out. And I think that that's one of our end goals as teachers of civics is to produce an environment in which students want to be well-informed well beyond our classrooms. Right, they want to continue to learn and to know and to find out. So being able to model that, even in that moment of just almost self-preservation, of thinking like, okay, I need a moment to process what's happening in the world, in the news and what students are asking, in that moment, I think it's important to give ourselves that grace to be able to do that and to be vulnerable in that sense of not having all of the answers and kind of the tipping point or the opposite end of that is that civics is really crucial for developing informed and engaged citizens.
Jamie Warner:And that feels like a lot of pressure when you're a teacher of civics, but just knowing what we do is important, I think kind of gives us that added value of what we do each day.
Jamie Warner:And for me, what I take solace in in my curriculum is emphasizing skills over content and knowing that if we can provide students with the skills that they need to be well-informed and well-engaged members of society, I have this faith that they're going to continue that forward well beyond eighth grade and into high school, when they can affect change through voting and civic participation and things of that nature, so kind of modeling it on what I would consider a smaller scale in our classroom. I think they'll carry forward in other ways, which just gives me hope with what we do and kind of makes me recognize the importance and the value in what we do. It's kind of this circular thing, right, that anxiety and pressure, but knowing that it's okay to breathe and be vulnerable and do the research with your students, but also knowing that it's going to go to this amazing place where students will take these lessons with them. You know, as far as they, as far as they would like.
Liz Evans:I love that. And lastly, Rebecca.
Rebecca Helland:I like that you brought up, jamie, the idea of skills and really instilling those skills in there for kids. A lot of content is very Google-able and as we're educating kids for a world that we can't possibly vision right now, those skills become really important. Those skills become really important. The inquiry piece it comes to mind too with, like how we can equip kids to be great curious question askers and to have those strong research skills and then the communication skills that can go with that.
Rebecca Helland:I think, particularly for an elementary perspective too, like we're helping kids understand the world that they're born into, like why things are the way that they are, and sometimes those are very big, heavy topics and sometimes they're just a lot of fun. So one of my personal bucket list goals in life is to be able to like tell the story of United States history through team mascots and all of the stories and things that go behind those. So it doesn't always have to be super heavy and doom and gloom, though we don't want to avoid those things right, so it's balance. It can be the fun parts about why certain teams got the name that they got because of the location that they're in or a significant part in history that that, that that played which, when you're, when you're helping kids understand, like this, is why things are the way that they are. Then they understand it and are more willing to jump into it and enter into civic engagement too and those are so fun.
Liz Evans:I actually remember, uh, when I taught ap government, we were looking at um, a supreme court case it was uh tam versus mattel on whether or not the use of uh the band named the slants, went against the us trademark um, and this band was asian, american and it actually brought up the case of the Washington Redskins and they had such a very. It was so curious and so constitutional about whether or not, you know, teams should change their name and what does it mean to be, you know, to have these names that maybe have outgrown what they were, and it was so interesting. And I will be very interested to see your telling of American history through mascots, because that's fun. Like that kind of stuff is fun. You're right, it doesn't always have to be, you know, heavy. It can be things like why do we celebrate the things we celebrate? And you know, why do we use firecrackers on the 4th of July, like. Those are questions that maybe kids haven't ever thought of, but those are actually great historical questions.
Liz Evans:Brandon, jamie, rebecca, I want to thank you, I mean for all the work you did with the cohort and all of these incredible lessons that you created, but also for taking time to have this conversation with me. I really hope that there is teachers out there, because we heard from an elementary and middle school and a high school teacher and we're all over the nation I'm in Arizona, rebecca's in Iowa, brandon you're in Missouri and Jamie you're on the East Coast of New Jersey. There's so much variety here. So thank you for your time and thank you for what you do in the classroom.
Brandon Westlake:Thank you, Liz.
Rebecca Helland:Appreciate the opportunity.
Jamie Warner:Thanks, yes, thank you so much for having me.
